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Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: AbrasiveScotsman (IP Logged)
Date: February 18, 2012 01:15AM

I got to get me one of these anti-bus helmets:

"A cyclist who was rammed off the road by a bus driver using his vehicle "like a weapon" has said his helmet saved his life. .....Without my helmet it could have been a lot worse – I could have been killed. "

source: [www.telegraph.co.uk]

Yeah totally - because while wearing a helmet, you could not possibly be killed by a bus driver who deliberately rams you with a 13 ton vehicle.....

Say what you will about helmets (even I occassionally wear them), but do you ever get the idea that some folk think they are capable of a lot more than they really are in terms of protection?

For some people, when confronted with their own mortality, anything that allows a "yeah but I couldn't really have been killed" rationalisation is clung to like a warm blanket.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blue 2007 Nazca Fuego rider

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: Geoff (IP Logged)
Date: February 18, 2012 07:46AM

I've told this one before but it shows the mentality we are dealing with.

A local(ish) child who was not wearing a helmet, was hit by a car as he cycled off the pavement between two parked cars into the road. He suffered a broken ankle and some minor injuries. His brilliant mother, started a campaign to force cyclists to wear a helmet.

How? How? How? will that protect your ankle!!!

"I thought of that while riding my bike." --Albert Einstein, on the Theory of Relativity

2007 ICE QNT
2008 Hase Kettwiesel AL27
2011 Catrike Trail.
1951 Engine in need of partial rebuild.

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: corshamjim (IP Logged)
Date: February 18, 2012 10:22AM

Here we go again ...

I don't subscribe to the view that helmets offer too little protection. The kind of cycling I do, I would guess the most likely kind of impact to the head I'm (if) ever going to suffer is exactly the kind my helmet was designed for.

Personally I think helmet use is so nearly universal now, compulsion wouldn't be a big deal, and by the same token wouldn't make a great deal of difference to the injury statistics. So I don't think compulsion is necessary, but at the same time I don't think it would be a Bad Thing.

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: AbrasiveScotsman (IP Logged)
Date: February 18, 2012 11:03AM

corshamjim

We disagree about compulsion not being a bad thing. However I agree that a helmet can help in certain circumstances.

Being hit by a homicidal bus driver isn't one of them. And what's more no helmet manufacturer would try to claim such an incidient is anywhere within the helmet's design envelope.

Amongst some within the cycling community,and many without, helmets seem to have acquired an almost tallisman-like quality. They keep bad things away and offer generalised protection against all threats.

Taking a realisitc view of what a helmet can and cannot do for you is important if you want to be safe on the roads.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blue 2007 Nazca Fuego rider

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: corshamjim (IP Logged)
Date: February 18, 2012 11:12AM

Yes but this cyclist /was/ hit by a homicidal bus driver and lived to tell the tale...

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: AbrasiveScotsman (IP Logged)
Date: February 18, 2012 11:21AM

corshamjim, I've seen this rationale before. Let me see if I can write it down:



Accident + helmet + survival = thanks to helmet

Accident + helmet + death = not helmets fault

Accident + bare-headed + survival = just dumb luck

Accident + bare-headed + death = your fault for not wearing a helmet


The above is an equation which results in a total selection bias. All benefits are automatically declared thanks to helmets, whereas the helmet is excused blame for all failures. Without a helmet, even good outcomes are portrayed as something negative that can be blamed on not wearing a helmet.

Helmet manufacturers make helmets to do something in particular. The general public has a much broader interpretation of what a helmet can do than the man who designed and tested the thing.

Of course, helmet companies haven't been exactly quick to clarify these widespread overestimations of their products.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blue 2007 Nazca Fuego rider



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/02/2012 11:22AM by AbrasiveScotsman.

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: corshamjim (IP Logged)
Date: February 18, 2012 11:28AM

I still think that if the cyclist says the helmet saved his life he is probably right. He was there. Neither you nor I were.

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: RobH (IP Logged)
Date: February 18, 2012 12:46PM

If you are that worried about cycle helmets, do you wear one when in a car? The Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents say that 1200 fatal motor vehicle collisions each year involve head injury (to the motor vehicle user). They say that 800 of these deaths would have been prevented by helmet use.
Rob
wrhpv.com

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: corshamjim (IP Logged)
Date: February 18, 2012 12:58PM

I'm not worried about cycle helmets. I simply wear one and don't worry about it!

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: Seamus (IP Logged)
Date: February 18, 2012 02:52PM

Do cycle helmet manufuraters say what wearing their helmets protects you agiants?

I'd like see that.

I theink that wearing the cycle helmet protect me if I'm wearing on my bike and not moving at all!!!

The CTC does if I'm not moving at 6mph but 7mph is riscky.

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: Seamus (IP Logged)
Date: February 18, 2012 03:08PM

quickly read another magazine and they review cycle helmets and what of the protection?

Uh, Nothing about what that protect you from.

fit, style, wieght, Nothing about what happens it you hit a car/bus or gound.

It was "cycling plus",

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: RobH (IP Logged)
Date: February 18, 2012 03:34PM

The last Helmet 'standard' I looked at was against a 1 metre fall when stationary... That was the 'better' BS rather than the old ANSI/Shnell standards that the old hard shell helmets used to be against.
Rob
wrhpv.com

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: Geoff (IP Logged)
Date: February 18, 2012 05:12PM

corshamjim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here we go again ...
>
> I don't subscribe to the view that helmets offer
> too little protection. The kind of cycling I do,
> I would guess the most likely kind of impact to
> the head I'm (if) ever going to suffer is exactly
> the kind my helmet was designed for.
>
> Personally I think helmet use is so nearly
> universal now, compulsion wouldn't be a big deal,
> and by the same token wouldn't make a great deal
> of difference to the injury statistics. So I
> don't think compulsion is necessary, but at the
> same time I don't think it would be a Bad Thing.


Sorry but helmet use is nowhere near universal and all of te evidence suggests helmet compulsion = fewer cyclists and more accidents per rider mile for those that are left riding.

What part of that is har to understand?

"I thought of that while riding my bike." --Albert Einstein, on the Theory of Relativity

2007 ICE QNT
2008 Hase Kettwiesel AL27
2011 Catrike Trail.
1951 Engine in need of partial rebuild.

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: David (IP Logged)
Date: February 19, 2012 02:01PM

RobH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The last Helmet 'standard' I looked at was against
> a 1 metre fall when stationary... That was the
> 'better' BS rather than the old ANSI/Shnell
> standards that the old hard shell helmets used to
> be against.
> Rob
> wrhpv.com


Sadly the standard of helmets has dropped dramatically since those halycon days when they acrtually offered protection!

Np helmets now pass the Snell B95 that used to be tha main standrad, and few pass the inferior Snell B90

In the UK we have the laughable EN1078 that is now banned in the US for sporting events as it does not offer adequate protection!

I fail to understand how we have a whole advocacy for their use, yet the smae advocates do nothing about the declining quality and level of protection offered.

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: Seamus (IP Logged)
Date: February 19, 2012 04:21PM

Had a look on the net to see is I'm right and I am.

No helmets are designed to stop pratect you if you hit something thats moving.

That best standard is when your not moving and to fall hitting a kerb that 2 meters away.

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: Seamus (IP Logged)
Date: February 27, 2012 03:12PM

Was reading, "New Cyclist," from August 1992.
That has a advert from the helmet company Centurion and it says that their helmets passed the test.

"drpping a 5kg weight from a height of one metre onto a kerbstone anvil."
Pages 34-35.

Theres survive quite few but the opposting only survives the once.
Thats what there supposed to do. Just the once. I dont think Centurion are with us now.

One metre?
Are this helmets only for the riding recumbent?

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: John Turvey (IP Logged)
Date: February 27, 2012 10:13PM

Actually, I always thought there was less need for a helmet on recumbents as there is less likelyhood of landing on your head.

John Turvey

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: Seamus (IP Logged)
Date: March 01, 2012 03:26PM

I think the a human head weigh about 5kg. That from my job as a lab technician.

So, this test is for a recumbent rider head hitting the kerb, not moving and with not cars.

What a stupid test.

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: AbrasiveScotsman (IP Logged)
Date: March 01, 2012 03:38PM

The good thing about the SNELL standards was they hit the helmet from all sorts of angles with lots of different shaped anvils (such as ones shaped like kerb stones and spheres).

The modern standards are much less stringent. I think they only have to withstand low speed impacts from a blunt anvil and kerbstones. They are tested to much lower velocities than Snell

The modern standards are not up to much compared with SNELL.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blue 2007 Nazca Fuego rider



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2012 10:13AM by AbrasiveScotsman.

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: Seamus (IP Logged)
Date: March 01, 2012 03:43PM

I think I'll stop wearing a helmet and go back to a baseball cap.

I only wore one cos the doctor said I should. Grrr. Bad brain already.

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: Steveindenmark (IP Logged)
Date: March 01, 2012 05:06PM

Every cycle forum I go on always has the topic about helmets, sometimes quite heated.

I have 3 helmets. Sometimes I wear one, sometimes I don`t. If I am going on a training ride with my road bike I wear one. If it is a gentle ride to the beach, I don`t wear one.

When will people understand that until there are laws passed which says we must wear helmets, we have the option not to wear one?

Here is a nice video about a country who knows a thing or two about cycling. Let us play "Spot the helmet" and then consider the conclusion.

[www.youtube.com]

Steve

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: Seamus (IP Logged)
Date: March 03, 2012 03:12PM

Our Prime Minster David Cameron says,

"I don't think I will be getting back into the saddle anytime soon."

Asked if has anytime think to do with the rubbish standards for cycle helmet he say,

"Grrr."

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: Seamus (IP Logged)
Date: March 03, 2012 03:25PM

Denmark and the Netherlands have about most cyclists riding in their coiuntrises (?)

They dont wear helmets do they?

I was in Denmark in my Peer Gynt and on my Challenge Mistral in 2000 and another year.

I go the the Netherlamd quite frenqently.

How about a, "Bike Culture Never," expemint?

Victim 1 has one a cap/woolen hat/or what ever thoght had on instaed of the helmet.
Victim 2 has on a cycle helmet.
A large, heavy pole is weilding like a car and is hit on Victim 1 and Victim 2.
The hole in the skull is expamind.
The one with then best* hole loses.

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: Seamus (IP Logged)
Date: March 03, 2012 04:03PM

*best, biggest, bloodiest etc.

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: Arch (IP Logged)
Date: March 04, 2012 11:19AM

Steveindenmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Every cycle forum I go on always has the topic
> about helmets, sometimes quite heated.
>
<edit>
>
> When will people understand that until there are
> laws passed which says we must wear helmets, we
> have the option not to wear one?
>


I think people do understand that. It's the fear of that compulsion that arouses the emotions - the worry that if enough people evangelise enough, we lose the chance to decide for ourselves.

I used to wear a helmet most of the time, now I can't remember the last time I did. But don't tell my mother that. Of course she never wore a helmet when she rode a bike to the shops...

If I had a baby elephant, it could help me wash the car. If I had a car.

Also often found on www.cyclechat.co.uk

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: Geoff (IP Logged)
Date: March 04, 2012 10:25PM

Totally agree Arch. I used to wear one when commuting on a DF, hardly ever ride with one on trike, In fact I gave up after rapping my helmet on the deck on my second ride of a recumbent bike. I realised I'd not have made contact without the extra 1.5-2" of helmet sticking out. As I fell fairly regularly while I was acquiring the necessary skills to keep upright, I can confirm I never hit my head while toppling off at stops and starts, or at any other time.

"I thought of that while riding my bike." --Albert Einstein, on the Theory of Relativity

2007 ICE QNT
2008 Hase Kettwiesel AL27
2011 Catrike Trail.
1951 Engine in need of partial rebuild.

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: Seamus (IP Logged)
Date: March 05, 2012 08:21PM

A crash helmet that provide protection if a cyclist got his by a car who be like a motorcyclist helmet and that doent work uslaully cos we never hear about motorcylist being killed by cars?

Er?

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: AbrasiveScotsman (IP Logged)
Date: March 06, 2012 10:00AM

Here's what the BHRF have to say about the current standards vs SNELL B-90.


[cyclehelmets.org]

and

[cyclehelmets.org]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blue 2007 Nazca Fuego rider



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2012 10:16AM by AbrasiveScotsman.

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: corshamjim (IP Logged)
Date: March 07, 2012 08:00AM

Here's what the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents have to say about the wearing of cycle helmets generally...

[www.rospa.com]

Re: Anti-Bus Helmet
Posted by: Seamus (IP Logged)
Date: March 07, 2012 03:25PM

I hate it when people say what somebody and give the when site withouit say what they said like those two before,

Good or bad?
We dont know without reading the websites.
Perhaps a clue.

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