Leicester is number three.;-)

Ner ner ner ner ner to all you Yorkies!

Top three are Bristol, Nottingham and Leicester.

There's a story here [realcycling.blogspot.com]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 26/03/2010 03:06PM by Hilldodger.

I suspect it's because we just get on and cycle, and don't make a fuss about it...

;-)

Or not. I dunno.

Hmm, this quote sort of sums it up:

"Nor does York, one of the few other cities I'd happily live in as a Real Cyclist."

If I had a baby elephant, it could help me wash the car. If I had a car.

Also often found on www.cyclechat.co.uk

Having recently had cause to visit central Nottingham I wasn't left with the impression of a cycle-friendly city... Looked more like a bog-standard US-style hell-on-earth motorcar race track!
Given the choice I'd take York every time!

Arch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I suspect it's because we just get on and cycle,
> and don't make a fuss about it...
Probably more to do with the fact that, despite the Council's proclamations to the contrary, York's cycle 'facilities' blow noodles - widening cycle lanes to the correct width, as has been done on Tadcaster Road recently f'rinstance, doesn't not a good facility make.

Aaah ... springtime. I can feel the cynicism rising.

--
Simon Ward - VV/EBM webmaster

Leicester Spokefest the first.

Someone called Simon had a ride.

We went to a road didnt cross it.

there was 3 cyclist crossing to going over before we crossed it.
BAD!!

That was 10 years ago Seamus ;-)

yes i was.

So how they dont anything with it?

I was listening to radio 4 today about cycling iniatives in cities and towns. Some of the movers and shakers were extremely pleased with a 1.5% take up/ increase in cycling. MMMM.

I lived in York a long time ago. On the face of it an excellent city for cycling. Unfortunately the roads were cluttered up with cars, often going nowhere (see Bootham Road and any around the city walls) which proved a major impediment to forward progress.

York has the temerity to proclaim itself "Britain's Cycling City" when it suits them, yet how can a city make that claim when cyclists are banned from going into or through the city centre during most of the working day?
When York made it bid for 'Cycling Town' status, to Cycling England/DfT, it was clear in the criteria that 'permeability' would be deemed very important by the awarding panel (My co-director at BikeRescue was actually on the team which travelled down to make the presentation, cos the Council hadnt a clue), The Council officers made flanneling promises of opening the steeets to bikes. We are now approaching the end of the 3 years as a 'Cycling Town', and.... nix, nada, b***er all! not even the main flagship project, the HubStation, has been delivered.
Incompetent fools!
I'm off to London, where I can cycle round with much more ease and coherence than in York. The Cab drivers are more civilised too.

Borntoolate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Cab drivers are more civilised too.
Not exactly difficult, although cabbies in Leeds seem to have a peculiar brand of psychosis which would give your run of the mill psychotic a bad name.

York is an epic fail on any number of levels - almost impossible to travel around, be it on a bike, in a car or on the bus, no safe bike parking and car parking charges are daylight robbery ... so I take my business to Leeds.

Almost impossible to travel round?

Dear me, how do I manage to commute 20 miles a week then? And another 12 or so miles a week while working.

And you can go into and through the city centre, you just have to walk. I've never felt it was a great imposition - most of the time the pedestrian areas are so crowded it would be more hassle to cycle anyway. I can't think of anything more stressful than trying to ride down Coney Street in the middle of an average day - pedestrians wandering in and out of shops, oblivious, stopping dead when they realise they've walked past Smiths and they wanted a paper. You'd be reduced to walking pace anyway, unless you rang your bell impatiently at everyone and expected them to get out out your way - when they'd have as much right to be there as any cyclist.

All I know is, at the major junctions on my longer commute I will usually see a dozen other cyclists, either going my way or t'other. Way more than a lot of places. So something must be good for cycling - even if it's the fact that it's stupid to drive.

If I had a baby elephant, it could help me wash the car. If I had a car.

Also often found on www.cyclechat.co.uk

The reasons there are a fair number of cyclists in York are, topography, history, middle-class intellectual mentality, traffic congestion and an abysmal rip-off bus service. Note that provision and facilities didnt feature there! We cycle, and we do cycling projects in spite of the Council, not because of them.

Im sorry if I sound over-scathing, but I've just come out of spending 4 years battling against pig-headed, lazy, image-obsessed dinosaur council officers and departments (We have some good councillors)in attempting to have their promises on cycling provision met. They have lied, applied for funds knowing they had no intention of using them for the intended purpose, they have misled the people, they are in short, just as bad as politicians, and in many cases worse. When poor, inaccesible facilities are eventually delivered (stand up Heslington Lane cycle track) they crow as though they have given us the moon on a stick.

Obviously on this forum I'm not going to get Peter into trouble by naming names. If I thought it would make a difference I would hand over a dossier to the Ombudsman and the press. Instead I just ride my bikes, avoiding the worst abhorrences of cycle 'planning', and focus my attention on more pleasant things.

At least I dont live in Sheffield any more!

Borntoolate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Instead I
> just ride my bikes


And at the end of the day, the more of us who do that, the more will follow. The annoyance is that so many people think they need 'facilities'. All we actually need in physical terms is nice tarmac, or even half decent tarmac, and some metal hoops to lock our bikes to.

The one thing that wold make it more pleasant would be better attitudes from drivers, and no amount of green paint will sort that out.

If I had a baby elephant, it could help me wash the car. If I had a car.

Also often found on www.cyclechat.co.uk

Too true, all the paint in the world is not as good as sensible driving.

"I thought of that while riding my bike." --Albert Einstein, on the Theory of Relativity

2007 ICE QNT
2008 Hase Kettwiesel AL27
2011 Catrike Trail.
1951 Engine in need of partial rebuild.

France is a good example (only because it's one of the few places abroad I've been to). Generally, I haven't noticed a huge amount of facilities, but drivers are way more accommodating. Partly, I think, because cycling isn't something wierdos do, it's something lots of people do - either for utility, or on the Sunday club run - there is of course, much more importance placed on cycling as a sport.

I know that the Netherlands has a huge number of cyclists of course (not been there yet), but they also apparently have a lot of facilities (generally good ones). It's hard to disentangle the two in that case.

If I had a baby elephant, it could help me wash the car. If I had a car.

Also often found on www.cyclechat.co.uk

Arch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> France is a good example (only because it's one of
> the few places abroad I've been to). Generally, I
> haven't noticed a huge amount of facilities, but
> drivers are way more accommodating.
Bingo.
One of the things that struck me about France when I was over there was
the attitude of the motorists. In fact, the only problem drivers we
encountered were GB-plate sporting muppets near St.Malo.

I went to Bruges for a conference a few years back and there were plenty
of cyclists in evidence - the facilities weren't as full-on as the sort of
thing you'd find in the Netherlands, but they appeared to be well thought
out and people used them as a result.

Seems that we're never willing to learn from our continental cousins. More's
the pity.

I have only ever met one "access control" (ie an anti cycle barrier) on a cycle route in the Netherlands - it has now been removed, but was in IJmuiden near the ferry terminal - I assume it was installed to warn Dutch people of what to expect in the UK

John Turvey

John Turvey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I assume it was
> installed to warn Dutch people of what to expect
> in the UK
>

Was it next to a motorway cafe selling boiling hot but tasteless tea and rubber sandwiches? ;-)

If I had a baby elephant, it could help me wash the car. If I had a car.

Also often found on www.cyclechat.co.uk

Strangley enough, I have never cycled on a motorway, neither in Netherlaands or in the UK - I cycled in Australia in 1999 and was told that cycling was permitted on the hard shoulder of motorways in non-urban areas, but I never came across a motorway while I was there once out of Melbourne so never had a chance to do this.

As for cafe in the Netherlands, the tea can be questionable (you get a cup of heated water and are presented with a choice of "tea" bags - but most of them are not "propper"tea) - but the food is always superb

John

John Turvey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As for cafe in the Netherlands, the tea can be
> questionable (you get a cup of heated water and
> are presented with a choice of "tea" bags - but
> most of them are not "propper"tea)
This is one of the reasons I tend to have a little baggie full of teabags tucked away in my saddlebag - Johnny Foreigner just can't seem to get the hang of making a decent cuppa :-)

And don't get me started on French coffee ...

Just back from 6 days in York (Bishopsthorpe). Cycled into the City and down to Selby. Can't comment on the whole of the city but we were most impressed by the cycle lanes / routes that side of town. Certainly haven't found anything to match in the Midlands, Leicester included. Unfortunately, security was still a worry - someone from our camp site had their bike stolen while padlocked in the centre of York (NB. The bike was padlocked....not them).

Arch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All we actually need in physical terms is nice tarmac,
> or even half decent tarmac, and some metal hoops
> to lock our bikes to.

My personal opinion was that unless a cycle facility provides a journey option that wasn't available before, then it's not worth bothering with. Obviously even ones that pass this test can still be awful to the point of non-useability, however painting a greenstripe 18" wide in the gutter definitely fails!

However my test means there are 3, maybe 4, cycle facilities in York that are worth mentioning - the cyclelane across Minister Yard, the contra-flow lane at the end of Leemand Road (dubious due to it's short length), the Millenium Bridge and maybe the lane connecting New Lane with Kathryn Avenue in Huntington (never used this one, so can't say for certain).

EDIT: Oh yeah, there's also the Derwent Valley cyclepath. Though that was better before they slapped a road across it when they created the James Street link-road (and the less said about the cycle farcilities they created as part of that the better!)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2010 12:52PM by palmersperry.

<Certainly haven't found anything to match in the Midlands, Leicester included.>

Er, Great Central Way? Riverside Way?

Er, Great Central Way? Riverside Way?

Are these safe routes to for a lady commuter in the dark, oh and the glass - I think not !!

Try the Nreat Central Way just north of the A563 with a trike and trailer - I did (once) and have marked it down as a route never to use again - like far too many cycle routes - what I like are cycling routes where, as in the Netherlands, I can ride my trike with trailer attached all day without having to get off/disconnect/unload etc and lift each item chest high every few hundred metres - all too many 'facilities' for cyclists in the UK are cycle routes but not cycling routes - anything with a 'cyclist dismount' sign, an undropped (or inadequaterly dropped) kerb, an 'access' (anti-cycle barrier) control (and I can go on and on but cannot be bothered) is a cycle route where it is impossible to cycle so is not a cycling route - even 'on-road' cycle lanes are often so well designed that I can only assume it is the intention of the designer that cyclists who use them will die.

John Turvey

Not any more you don't, the policy here is to remove barriers.

Anyway this survey - which I posted as a joke! - is more about council commitment, how much rain you get, cycling projects, how good looking the cyclists are etc etc etc.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 13/04/2010 03:27PM by Hilldodger.

@Palmersperry/ Yes I agree, I mentioned heslington Lane, because it was opened in a blaze of publicity. It runs from the road, thruogh a gate, through an impossible access barrier, then 300m alongside the road, to emerge again via another barrier, and another gate, and another barrier, back on to the road you just came off, but you have to give way to re-access the road. Thats the standard of 'provision' they think we are worth. The barriers on that track are too narrow to lat the handlebars of a standard hybrid or Dutch bike through (tested)!
Millenium bridge is wonderful, although the Council (who didnt pay for it, of course) even tried to spoil that one with 'speed humps'. There's also no delineation between modes, so its hazardous for cyclists and peds, with a cn unmarked steps access on the fast downslope, for peds to emerge from as a brake-test!
@John, "A cycling facility which required cyclists to dismount is not a cycling facility". This was always the doctrine of the Cycle Campaign Network. Its always a useful quote for letters to the press.
@Hilldodger. Here, the policy is to erect more barriers (Hob Moor).

Thanks for the quote borntoolate. I'll be wearing that one out!!!!

"I thought of that while riding my bike." --Albert Einstein, on the Theory of Relativity

2007 ICE QNT
2008 Hase Kettwiesel AL27
2011 Catrike Trail.
1951 Engine in need of partial rebuild.

The Newcastle/Gateshead Millenium bridge (the 'Blinking Eye bridge) is even worse - it was built with two partly seperated routes - when it was opened the narrower side (over 2 metres wide, so no complaints about the width) was for cyclists, and the wider side was for pedestrians - the only initial complaint was about the access controls (which are just wide enough for a recumbent trike to go straight through with care, and the same width all the way up, so a lot better than many access controls).

However, a few months later, the designation was changed - the wider side is still exclusivly for pedestrians, and the narrower side is now shared use - but for some reason (at least when I am cycling across it) nearly all the pedestrians use the narrower side - very frustating.

John Turvey